CEwire2016 Day 1!

[AdminWolf]

Well, Day 1 is complete! Based on the feedback we received throughout the day, there were no major issues or technology flubs. So that was a relief!

The lectures from today are all ready to go 'on demand', so if you missed some from today feel free to watch.

.. and if you haven't registered, there's still time, sign up here. We've had plenty of more signups throughout the day today. Remember you can take these lectures any time between now and May 1st, for full COPE credit.

Paul and I will be back on the air live tomorrow morning at 11am ET for more interview fun...

cheers
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[Steve Silberberg]

Adam it works so well that even if you are late you can watch ondemand

 

[Melissa Wohl]

Thank you so much for a wonderful CE program. I am enjoying it.

One question I have about the program is if you watch it live does it count as a live webinar which in NY counts as regular (i.e. not online) CE? That is in NY we are allowed only 9 online CE credits per 3 year cycle but allowed unlimited live webinar credits. When I took a few live webinar classes yesterday it just showed up as online as opposed to live webinar and that is why I am asking. Thanks.

 

[AdminWolf]

Thank you so much for a wonderful CE program. I am enjoying it.

One question I have about the program is if you watch it live does it count as a live webinar which in NY counts as regular (i.e. not online) CE? That is in NY we are allowed only 9 online CE credits per 3 year cycle but allowed unlimited live webinar credits. When I took a few live webinar classes yesterday it just showed up as online as opposed to live webinar and that is why I am asking. Thanks.

hi melissa, NY is a problem -- the 9 credits will work regardless, it is the rest that are up in the air. we've asked folks to approach the board to clarify their position. It seems totally obtuse to me to disallow the credits if the speaker is available to answer questions, no matter the mechanism -- e-mail, text, odwire.org thread, etc...

 

[Richard Pagan]

hi melissa, NY is a problem -- the 9 credits will work regardless, it is the rest that are up in the air. we've asked folks to approach the board to clarify their position. It seems totally obtuse to me to disallow the credits if the speaker is available to answer questions, no matter the mechanism -- e-mail, text, odwire.org thread, etc...

wait I thought this issue was resolved?

1. Am I required to physically attend courses to meet the continuing education requirement?

Answer: No. Optometrists must complete at least three-quarters of their continuing education hours through "live courses" (please see question 18 for the definition of live courses). The balance of the remaining hours may be completed through the appropriate self-study courses.

1. What is a live course?
   Answer: Live courses are those in which you are able to interact with the instructor. For example: a live lecture; a webinar, a telecourse or teleconference in which you and the instructor can speak directly with each other; a course in which you and other practitioners discuss a taped presentation with a facilitator's assistance; a computerized course in which you are able to interact directly with the instructor. On the other hand, a televised lecture with no means of direct interaction would not be acceptable as a live course even if it is a live telecast.

seems self explanatory. I think cewire should list the courses as "live" as apposed to "online" in the certification area, as they meet all the requirement therein. In one of the courses during CEwire, I basically had a dialogue with the presenter, something that is impossible in traditional CE lectures.

 

[Paul Farkas]

wait I thought this issue was resolved?

1. Am I required to physically attend courses to meet the continuing education requirement?

Answer: No. Optometrists must complete at least three-quarters of their continuing education hours through "live courses" (please see question 18 for the definition of live courses). The balance of the remaining hours may be completed through the appropriate self-study courses.

1. What is a live course?
   Answer: Live courses are those in which you are able to interact with the instructor. For example: a live lecture; a webinar, a telecourse or teleconference in which you and the instructor can speak directly with each other; a course in which you and other practitioners discuss a taped presentation with a facilitator's assistance; a computerized course in which you are able to interact directly with the instructor. On the other hand, a televised lecture with no means of direct interaction would not be acceptable as a live course even if it is a live telecast.

seems self explanatory. I think cewire should list the courses as "live" as apposed to "online" in the certification area, as they meet all the requirement therein. In one of the courses during CEwire, I basically had a dialogue with the presenter, something that is impossible in traditional CE lectures.

Good suggestion.

 

[AdminWolf]

wait I thought this issue was resolved?

1. Am I required to physically attend courses to meet the continuing education requirement?

Answer: No. Optometrists must complete at least three-quarters of their continuing education hours through "live courses" (please see question 18 for the definition of live courses). The balance of the remaining hours may be completed through the appropriate self-study courses.

1. What is a live course?
   Answer: Live courses are those in which you are able to interact with the instructor. For example: a live lecture; a webinar, a telecourse or teleconference in which you and the instructor can speak directly with each other; a course in which you and other practitioners discuss a taped presentation with a facilitator's assistance; a computerized course in which you are able to interact directly with the instructor. On the other hand, a televised lecture with no means of direct interaction would not be acceptable as a live course even if it is a live telecast.

seems self explanatory. I think cewire should list the courses as "live" as apposed to "online" in the certification area, as they meet all the requirement therein. In one of the courses during CEwire, I basically had a dialogue with the presenter, something that is impossible in traditional CE lectures.

It is driving me nuts that we can't easily find someone on the board to talk to about this -- because our courses aren't just live, they are better than live, as we give everyone a mechanism to not only get a hold of the speaker during the conference, but after as well, throughout the on-demand period...

 

[Michael W Ohlson]

I'd imagine these issues continue on for a while. Personally, I favor progressive venues. Obviously I favor effectiveness of CE and modern physician leaner techniques. Duh.

We're seeing many changes in health care. Telemedicine, new technology, the ongoing struggles... not pretty.

This topic is certainly worthy to bring up at the ARBO annual meeting in June and via the COPE committee prior to that. ARBO does not and can not make state rule or law. But, the communication of contemporary issues and various problems is on mission.

As you'd expect, the individual jurisdiction and national politics may be a bit difficult.

Individual state boards generally set agendas for their next meetings. It might be of use to insist on being on the next meeting agenda. Just a thought.

 

[Richard Pagan]

It is driving me nuts that we can't easily find someone on the board to talk to about this -- because our courses aren't just live, they are better than live, as we give everyone a mechanism to not only get a hold of the speaker during the conference, but after as well, throughout the on-demand period...

why is there any confusion? using their definition there appears to be no problem, so why are you unsure?

 

[AdminWolf]

why is there any confusion? using their definition there appears to be no problem, so why are you unsure?

Not so much 'unsure' as i don't want any surprises for people. One of the major stressors putting this all together has been having to worry about what each state will or will not accept. I am always the most reassured when we get direct feedback from someone on a board.

I am amazed by the lack of uniformity across the country -- medicine has some of it, but nothing to this extent.

 

[Mark Horwitz]

wait I thought this issue was resolved?

1. Am I required to physically attend courses to meet the continuing education requirement?

Answer: No. Optometrists must complete at least three-quarters of their continuing education hours through "live courses" (please see question 18 for the definition of live courses). The balance of the remaining hours may be completed through the appropriate self-study courses.

1. What is a live course?
   Answer: Live courses are those in which you are able to interact with the instructor. For example: a live lecture; a webinar, a telecourse or teleconference in which you and the instructor can speak directly with each other; a course in which you and other practitioners discuss a taped presentation with a facilitator's assistance; a computerized course in which you are able to interact directly with the instructor. On the other hand, a televised lecture with no means of direct interaction would not be acceptable as a live course even if it is a live telecast.

seems self explanatory. I think cewire should list the courses as "live" as apposed to "online" in the certification area, as they meet all the requirement therein. In one of the courses during CEwire, I basically had a dialogue with the presenter, something that is impossible in traditional CE lectures.

how about in New Jersey??

 

[Steve Silberberg]

how about in New Jersey??

Mark this was posted on NJ's list serve:
3. How many continuing education credits can I obtain from Internet or correspondence courses?

A maximum of 20 of the mandatory 50 continuing professional optometric education credits, including a maximum of 10 of the mandatory 30 TPA credits required (these 10 can be ORAL CE credits to satisfy the required amount), from any or all of the following:

1. Videotape, audiotape, computer media, Internet, journal, or correspondence courses or programs. The course or program shall include an examination at the end of the course or program.

2. Structured grand round, which is a presentation, with a formal outline of the course or program material, of clinical cases involving actual patient encounters and the lecture and discussion of the diagnosis and treatment of the particular patient condition.

3. Hands-on demonstration of instrumentation when accompanied by didactic lectures.

4. Interactive workshops which include demonstrations and applications of hands-on techniques and skills in optometric procedures and instrumentations accompanied by didactic lectures.

5. Preparation and presentation of a continuing professional otpometric education lecture.

6. Preparation of an educational or scientific article authored and published in a professional refereed journal.


George Veliky, OD

 

[Melissa Wohl]

wait I thought this issue was resolved?

1. Am I required to physically attend courses to meet the continuing education requirement?

Answer: No. Optometrists must complete at least three-quarters of their continuing education hours through "live courses" (please see question 18 for the definition of live courses). The balance of the remaining hours may be completed through the appropriate self-study courses.

1. What is a live course?
   Answer: Live courses are those in which you are able to interact with the instructor. For example: a live lecture; a webinar, a telecourse or teleconference in which you and the instructor can speak directly with each other; a course in which you and other practitioners discuss a taped presentation with a facilitator's assistance; a computerized course in which you are able to interact directly with the instructor. On the other hand, a televised lecture with no means of direct interaction would not be acceptable as a live course even if it is a live telecast.

seems self explanatory. I think cewire should list the courses as "live" as apposed to "online" in the certification area, as they meet all the requirement therein. In one of the courses during CEwire, I basically had a dialogue with the presenter, something that is impossible in traditional CE lectures.

Haha I was about to post this very definition, thank you Richard and I agree completely. Just going to add the link for anyone who is interested in reading it directly from the NYS Optometry continuing education link.
http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/optom/optomceques.htm

NY is very clear as to what they accept as live and live webinar courses count. So if we took them in real time and were able to interact live with the doctor who was lecturing it should be reflected in the CE certificate so we can get the appropriate "live" credit.

Adam, thank you again because the CE program was excellent and the process ran smoothly and I agree with you. CE Wire webinars are better than sitting in a classThe only bump in the road is how to show the webinar classes we took live as "live" credit vs "online" credit. Thanks for any help with this. It would make a big difference for those of us in states that have limits on "online" (i.e. on demand but not live online) but no limits on "live" webinars online.

 

[Richard Pagan]

Not so much 'unsure' as i don't want any surprises for people. One of the major stressors putting this all together has been having to worry about what each state will or will not accept. I am always the most reassured when we get direct feedback from someone on a board.

I am amazed by the lack of uniformity across the country -- medicine has some of it, but nothing to this extent.

would you do us NY's a favor and have the courses listed as "Live" in the certification section? or even "Live/Interactive". It's an important distinction. Thanks

 

[Melissa Wohl]

would you do us NY's a favor and have the courses listed as "Live" in the certification section? or even "Live/Interactive". It's an important distinction. Thanks

+1
That would solve the problem for those of us who took the classes as live.
Thanks Adam and Paul.

 

[Melissa Wohl]

Just spoke with a colleague of mine and when he took the live webinar from SUNY his certificate stated "LIVE CE"
He took the webinar from the privacy of his home and took it in real time hence the live designation.

This is to certify that

Name removed for privacy

has attended the

Using OCT and Visual Fields to Monitor Glaucoma Progression

Presented by Richard J. Madonna, MA, OD, FAAO

NYS Approved for 1 hour of LIVE CE
Presented in SUNY College of Optometry- New York, NY on November 18, 2015

 

[Steven Nelson]

Just spoke with a colleague of mine and when he took the live webinar from SUNY his certificate stated "LIVE CE"
He took the webinar from the privacy of his home and took it in real time hence the live designation.

Given that, I wonder what the difference is between that and CEWire? I mean, the lecturers are there while you're watching it and are available for questions via live chat, so what's the diff? For that matter, given that, what's the functional difference between this format and ACTUAL live lectures since you can see all of the other questions asked as well? Other than the fact that you have to pass a test on these, of course.

If anything, I'd argue that the lecturer is MORE available for questions since he/she's not talking at the time.

 

[Melissa Wohl]

Exactly Steve. I agree if anything CEWire is more thorough due to the testing at the end. During the Suny webinar my friend said they asked questions during it to make sure you were there but the accuracy of the answers did not matter. However I did not attend so I cannot speak to that issue.

However I can say that CEWire is thorough and informative and certainly as good if not better than taking a physical class in a lecture hall. Plus when taking the lectures live there is live interaction which meets NYS requirements for live CE.

The only difference is that the certificate from CEWire does not reflect if you took it as a live webinar vs on demand and therein lies the problem for NY state requirements that is. If that could be remediated we would get live CE credit.

 

[Steven Nelson]

Exactly Steve. I agree if anything CEWire is more thorough due to the testing at the end. During the Suny webinar my friend said they asked questions during it to make sure you were there but the accuracy of the answers did not matter. However I did not attend so I cannot speak to that issue.

However I can say that CEWire is thorough and informative and certainly as good if not better than taking a physical class in a lecture hall. Plus when taking the lectures live there is live interaction which meets NYS requirements for live CE.

The only difference is that the certificate from CEWire does not reflect if you took it as a live webinar vs on demand and therein lies the problem for NY state requirements that is. If that could be remediated we would get live CE credit.

This actually brings up an EXCELLENT point with regard to those states that require x number of hours of "live" CE. Is there not a way to get this qualified overall as a type of live CE since the lecturers ARE present and ARE there for live questions and commentary during the presentation as well as a 10 minute "post-lecture" time specifically for Q&A?

This isn't the normal online CE in that regard. I suppose it applies only to those seeing it at the time of the conference, but I wonder if there's a way to create a designation for those folks that view it "live" to get around that particular state board hurdle?

@AdminWolf

 

[Paul Farkas]

Good suggestion.

I assume you mist take the course and pass the quiz the day of the days of the live presentation so tha the certificate can affirm course taken live.

 

[Richard Pagan]

Good suggestion.

I assume you mist take the course and pass the quiz the day of the days of the live presentation so tha the certificate can affirm course taken live.

well at least for NY is there is no requirement for an actual quiz, only that we be able to interact with the presenter. It's a no brainer, CEwire does meet the requirements as is (especially with the quiz). All you need to do is change the certification to say "live/interactive" to avoid any confusion. For those that take the course when it is not "live/interactive" might then have the certification list it as "not-live or non-interactive". For example I did 12 credits as "live" for cewire 2016, and later I will likely watch some of the classes that I was unable to watch during the "live sessions". Those that I do later should be designated as "not-live or non-interactive" to indicate that the presenter was not interactive during the actual showing of the course.

 

[Richard Pagan]

I also want to add, that as someone who really didn't get to see any of the live cewire 2015, this recent 2016 version was absolutely fantastic.

 

[Paul Farkas]

well at least for NY is there is no requirement for an actual quiz, only that we be able to interact with the presenter. It's a no brainer, CEwire does meet the requirements as is (especially with the quiz). All you need to do is change the certification to say "live/interactive" to avoid any confusion. For those that take the course when it is not "live/interactive" might then have the certification list it as "not-live or non-interactive". For example I did 12 credits as "live" for cewire 2016, and later I will likely watch some of the classes that I was unable to watch during the "live sessions". Those that I do later should be designated as "not-live or non-interactive" to indicate that the presenter was not interactive during the actual showing of the course.

We're working on it.

I have a feeling that as optometry state boards allow more on line credits this will be their comprimise.

 

[Paul Farkas]

I also want to add, that as someone who really didn't get to see any of the live cewire 2015, this recent 2016 version was absolutely fantastic.

Thank you for the kind words. I hope CEwire2016 raised the bar a bit on what ODs deserve when they take C/E.

 

[Steve Silberberg]

I also want to add, that as someone who really didn't get to see any of the live cewire 2015, this recent 2016 version was absolutely fantastic.

Thanks Dr. Pagan..........everyone worked real hard and we tried to leave no stone unturned in providing the very best experience. To a minute every lecturer no matter what credentials presented the highest quality lectures available. If you only knew the man hours that goes into a venture like this. It is still available on demand so enjoy everyone

 

[Paul Farkas]

We're working on it.

I have a feeling that as optometry state boards allow more on line credits this will be their comprimise.

A follow up...We have to get Association of Regulatory Board of Optometry (ARBO) approval to add those important words "live /interactive" for the courses taken on the live days with instructors staring buy to answer questions.

Stay tuned...

 

[Melissa Wohl]

A follow up...We have to get Association of Regulatory Board of Optometry (ARBO) approval to add those important words "live /interactive" for the courses taken on the live days with instructors staring buy to answer questions.

Stay tuned...

Thank you Paul. Hoping ARBO will approve this because it was live and fit all their requirements for LIVE CE if we took the live webinars this past weekend. Thanks so much for working on this.

 

[Steve Silberberg]

Thank you Paul. Hoping ARBO will approve this because it was live and fit all their requirements for LIVE CE if we took the live webinars this past weekend. Thanks so much for working on this.

ARBO has to get that this is 2016 not 1982

 

[AdminWolf]

ARBO has to get that this is 2016 not 1982

Well, it's not ARBO's fault -- they are actually a small group who try to keep up with the latest "state of the art" in educational theory. They just have to be very careful with how they do things, since all 50 states (and beyond) rely upon them. So I don't think it'll be hard to get them to make a productive change. The states on the other hand....

 

[Paul Farkas]

ARBO has to get that this is 2016 not 1982

Let's give ARBO a break!

They are a group of underfunded hardworking ODs. They deal with 62 jurisdictions, each of whom have their own ideas.

They are aware of the New York State ruling and are moving to modify rules to allow for live internet COPE approved courses to have a special designation. It cannot happen overnight but rest assured we'll stay on top of this issue.

I believe many restrictive states will loosen up and allow additional credits, once their boards can be assured that participants have the ability to interact with the presenter in real time.That is the purpose of CEWire2016 two live days.

Once the rules are clarified we'll make certain our participants will have the ability to receive credit.

 

[Michael W Ohlson]

ARBO has to get that this is 2016 not 1982

Charming.

Actually, there was no COPE in 1982. So, interstate optometric CE wasn't really very progressive then. ARBO created COPE. Volunteers. In addition, optometry actively fought against COPE. Made "COPE? Nope!" buttons and wore them proudly. I have one on my desk to remind me.

While creating agreed-upon policies/definitions and fostering communication/action among 66 jurisdictions is a bit daunting, it's a worthy mission. State rules and laws are up to jurisdictions and legislatures, of course.

The genuine issue is in creating effective CE that improves care and community health for the benefit of the public and getting it to the OD learner. That's the mission of CE. Interactive, live, correspondence, and so on are passing terms in this age. Fast change. The new criteria requiring modern physician learning techniques, addressing knowledge gaps, effectiveness, and so on will be met with misunderstanding and resistance from stakeholders. Already have. But, they are not new concepts anymore. The standards of commercial support were not new upon calls for comment and implementation; optometry just didn't even know about them or want them after they were informed. No stakeholder supported the standards of commercial support for optometric CE despite the SFC Report demanding such change in CME. (Sigh)

Stakeholders in CE will face challenges as they do now. CE providers and speakers chose to teach health care providers in the 21st century. Not that simple. I like simple. But, it's not anymore. I'm a mere messenger. Personally, I favor progressive policies. I've been rather hard on COPE at times. But, there are quite a few good folks devoting many hours to it. Volunteers. Small staff.

ARBO is aware of the verbiage, definitions, dynamic nature of CE provision, various interpretations, etc. Things change and will again. Again, each jurisdiction makes their own rules and laws. Some are progressive. Many are not. It's doubtful the coming changes to COPE will represent permanent changes. It will always be a work in progress.

I sent your critiques on to the ARBO ED.