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Gun Control: Where are Optometrists on National Issues?

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Mike Cohen, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    And again, psychotics kill people!!!!

    Stop blaming the inanimate object. It does not come to life and compel people to evil. If you need to point a finger, point it in the correct direction. Shall I flood this thread with news reports of firearms saving lives. What good would it do, your eyes are shut.


    Hold people accountable for their actions.

    Why do we continue to punish the majority for the actions of the minority?

    Paul, you have easy access to firearms, but have not gone on a wild murder spree. WHY?
     
  2. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    Guns save lives

    "The Dallas Morning News reported late last month that a resident in the far north area of the city fatally shot two men after they forced their way into his home and attacked him. For this quick-thinking citizen, the personal firearm he kept in his home likely saved his life and the lives of his family. Perhaps those who persist in assailing the constitutional rights of American gun owners should reevaluate their position.



    The 29-year-old victim of the home intrusion, who was unnamed in the article, was home with his wife and three children on Jan. 23. At 9 a.m., two men appeared at a side door and asked for someone the man did not know. Before he knew it, the two forcefully entered the home and shot him in the arm. After retrieving a firearm from his bedroom, police said the resident shot and killed the two intruders in an ensuing gun battle.



    When lobbying for further restrictions on Second Amendment rights, gun-control advocates love to call attention to the number of crimes committed with guns in America. Brushing the Constitution off like a Transportation Services parking ticket, these groups call for more laws, more interference with average citizens seeking to exercise their outdated (albeit enumerated) rights. Somehow, they confuse good citizens with criminals. Ignored is the fact that, in the hands of the law-abiding, firearms are frequently used to prevent crimes.



    An exhaustive study on the effects of firearm ownership on crime by Professor John R. Lott bears this fact out. In his book, More Guns, Less Crime, Lott examines the results seen in many states after allowing qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. Lott found that, in counties allowing concealed handguns, the violent crime rate dropped an average of 5.5 percent, while neighboring counties not allowing concealed carry saw murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes all rise. Apparently, the criminals decided it would be in their best interest to choose victims less likely to be armed.



    Noticing the clear trend in these areas of the country, Lott was curious as to how the crime rates would have been affected had all states adopted right-to-carry laws. In one year alone, he estimated that 1,500 murders and 4,000 rapes would have never taken place. While substantial on its own, this analysis does not even begin to tell the whole story. Lott reports that, according to surveys, 98 percent of the time guns are used defensively, and the mere sight of a gun will send an attacker running. Many such instances are never reported to police, distorting the true role of firearms in self-defense. Rather than being blamed for violent crime, firearms in the hands of average and law-abiding citizens should be credited with much success in thwarting crime.



    Another trend anti-gunners should take notice of is the falling crime rate under the Bush administration and Ashcroft's Justice Department. As the Wall Street Journal reported this week, Ashcroft was initially attacked as attorney general because he believed Americans had a right to own guns. After two years in office, the violent crime rate is down from 12 percent to 9 percent. The reason? Ashcroft implemented Project Safe Neighborhoods, a plan similar to those long-advocated by the NRA and other gun-rights groups, as well as by law enforcement.



    The plan called for more money and officers to be directed at enforcing the gun laws already in existence. In contrast to the Brady waiting period, which, according to John Lott, only put four criminals behind bars in the four years before it was determined to be unconstitutional, Project Safe Neighborhoods has been wildly successful. The same Journal article reveals that federal firearms prosecutions have increased 32 percent over Clinton administration prosecutions, with the vast majority of convicts receiving jail sentences of three or more years. The Ashcroft Justice Department has treated the right to bear arms with the respect it deserves, simultaneously reducing the rate of violent crime, simply by enforcing the laws already on the books. Somehow, this strategy had been conveniently overlooked by those hostile to gun rights."



    Bold placed by me.
     
  3. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    Good Samaritan Gun Use

    "But what makes this case different is that 21 percent of the news stories actually mentioned that a citizen licensed to carry a concealed weapon used his gun to try and help stop the attack.

    The citizen, 50 year old Mark Wilson, was one of the two people murdered. As CNN reported, “Everyone here agrees, Wilson saved lives.” Fox News' website quoted the sheriff as saying "if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson, [Arroyo's son] would be dead."

    Wilson, a licensed concealed handgun permit holder, heard Arroyo’s shots and saw the commotion from his apartment window. He grabbed a handgun and headed toward the attacker. Arroyo had already wounded several police officers and there was no one left to prevent his rampage.
    Arroyo had also shot his 22-year-old son and was about ready to shoot him again from very close range when Wilson fired his gun, hitting Arroyo several times in the chest. Arroyo was wearing a bullet resistant vest and flak jacket and Wilson's shots did not seriously wound him. Yet, Wilson’s shots forced Arroyo to come after him, and it used up a couple of minutes of his time. Unfortunately, in the exchange of gunfire, Arroyo eventually fatally shot Wilson. With police arriving, Arroyo fled the scene and was later shot to death by police as they pursued him.
    Neighbors described Wilson as “one of the nicest, sweetest guys I've ever known.” Others pointed out that “He's not going to sit back and -- when he could do something about it, and just let it happen” and called him a hero.

    It is not remarkable that someone such as Mark Wilson was there at the scene to stop the attack before police arrived. For example, in about 30 percent of the multiple victim public school shootings that have captivated Americans’ attention starting in 1997, people used guns to stop the attacks before uniformed police were able to arrive on the scene. Few people know about these cases because only about one percent of the news stories on these cases mention how the attacks were stopped."

    Fox news 3/8/2005
     
  4. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    A Little History

    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
    ------------------------------
    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ---- ------------- -------------
    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    -----------------------------
    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million....and counting
     
  5. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  6. Ken Elder

    Ken Elder ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    I am mostly ambivalent on the gun issue but I would ask you to cite a source for all of your stories.

    Another member on here a while back during a similar debate mentioned that his daughter mentioned a story in Ohio where someone broke into someone's house and raped and murdered a whole family and how if that family had a gun, they would have been saved. IIRC, the perp was cited by name.

    Problem is, extensive online searching yielded no such story. Our frequent posters on here from Ohio recalled no such story. Surely a family of four being raped and murdered would be known to people of Ohio.

    Your stories appear to be cut and pasted or perhaps copied from a pro-gun website. Can you please explain the source, just for clarity? Thanks.
     
  7. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    Dallas Morning News web-site. Thank you for your concern.

    Question: If the stories had come from a pro-gun web-site, are they invalid?

    If a news piece is from a biased source, such as the Wall Street Journal, should we discount it?
     
  8. Ken Elder

    Ken Elder ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    See, I couldn't find on the DMN website. If you have a link, I'd read the story.

    And no, if it comes from a pro-gun website that doesn't make it invalid but it may mean that certain key points are left out or that others are embelished, just the same as anti-gun websites will post stories that are slanted in their favor.

    That's pretty much par for the course with political hot button issues.
     
  9. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    100% agreement Ken. I'll look for the link and post it.

    On a side note, I have a couple of tales myself. Wouldn't require a citation of source (firearm presence was deterent enough), but it wouldn't matter. This situation seems set in stone for ODWire posters, either in the for or against camps.

    Nothing said makes a difference to either party, but since I have saved myself from violent crime with a firearm, I won't ever change my position.
     
  10. Patrick Shorter O.D.

    Patrick Shorter O.D. Active Member

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  11. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  12. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    Saturday, April 11, 2009 [​IMG]

    ROTTERDAM, Netherlands — A man pulled a gun in a crowded Dutch cafe after an argument Saturday and shot a patron inside, then rushed outside where he shot three more people, one fatally, police said.
    Panic erupted in the cafe when the first shot rang out, but several people chased the gunman when he ran outside, overpowered and disarmed him, and wrestled him to the ground until police arrived, said police spokesman Remco Spaninxs.
    The man, a 44-year-old Rotterdam resident, had gotten into an argument in the bar earlier in the evening and was asked to leave, said Spaninxs. He returned later with a hand gun and began shooting.
    One person was wounded inside and three people were hit on the street, one of whom died, Spaninxs said.
    All the casualties were inside the Laurenshof Cafe when the shooting began shortly before 1 a.m., he said. It was unclear if the victims were among those who tried to grapple with the gunman.
    Television footage shortly after the incident showed medics giving emergency treatment to the wounded and loading them into ambulances. The body of the victim lay under a white sheet inside a cordon of police tape. Spaninxs said people in the cafe were in shock, crying and holding each other.
    The Laurenshof is a small but popular bar with live music near a shopping mall on Poolster Square in the east side of the port city of Rotterdam. A talent contest was under way at the time of the shooting. The music was loud and the atmosphere was good, Spaninxs said.
    He said the motive for the shooting was under investigation, though it likely was related to the argument earlier in the evening.
    Spaninxs said the suspect had no previous criminal record as far as he knew. Police withheld his identity in accordance with Dutch law.
    Police said the fatality was a 46-year-old man from Rotterdam but gave no further details. The other victims suffered gunshot wounds in the lower body.

    Quite gutsy for the people to make a citizens arrest against an armed felon. I am quite impressed. I will have to monitor the story to see how this person got their gun and how it turned them into a crazed murderer.
     
  13. #193 Apr 14, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
    Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  14. Nick Weber

    Nick Weber ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    I was just wondering if anyone read this link, except for Kristopher?

    That link is already changed. Someone must be on to you Kristopher. LOL.
     
  15. Paul Farkas

    Paul Farkas Administrator

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    Remember this is a public forum

    Many non-OD visitors view our conversation but unable to get into the discussion. So far there have been over 9000 views.

    I wonder how they break down pro and anti gun advocates?
     
  16. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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    Poll: Fewer Americans support stricter gun control laws


    • <LI class=cnnHiliteHeader>Story Highlights
    • Poll: 54 for percent favored stricter laws in 2001, compared with 39 percent today
    • Long-term decline in support for gun control coincided with a decline in murder rate
    • Sudden change may be influenced by politics, namely the Obama administration
    • Nearly all the decline is from people who don't identify themselves as Democrats
    • Next Article in Politics »
    [​IMG]

    (CNN) -- From Oakland, California, to Binghamton, New York, several mass shootings in recent weeks have killed dozens across the country. But has there been an effect on public opinion?
    [​IMG] Fewer people fave stricter gun control after recent shootings, including one in Binghamton, New York.





    Yes, and in a surprising way.
    Since 2001, most Americans have favored stricter gun laws, though support has slightly dropped in recent years: 54 percent favored stricter laws in 2001, compared with 50 percent in 2007, according to Gallup polling.
    Now, a recent poll reveals a sudden drop -- only 39 percent of Americans now favor stricter gun laws, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll.
    The gradual, long-term decline in support for gun control from the early 1990s to 2008 coincided with a decline in the murder rate. But this year's sudden drop seems to be influenced by politics, namely the Obama administration.
    "If [President Obama] and the people in control of Congress right now could have what they want, they would heavily restrict or eliminate guns from this country," said Sean Healy, an attorney who has advocated on behalf of gun-owner rights. [​IMG] Watch why some people don't want stricter gun laws »
    Or, Americans may have heard the new administration's take on assault weapons.
    "There are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstate the ban on the sale of assault weapons," said Attorney General Eric Holder in February.
    In March, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said, "I, as a senator, supported measures to try and reinstate it. Politically, that is a very big hurdle in our Congress. But there may be some approaches that could be acceptable, and we are exploring those."
    Don't Miss

    Still, the decline in American favor for stricter gun laws doesn't mean people want to see restrictions lifted -- 46 percent want no change in the current law, while only 15 percent want gun laws that are less strict.
    Nearly all the decline in support for stricter gun laws is from people who don't identify themselves as Democrats. Six in 10 Democrats still support stricter gun laws, but support has dropped 13 points among Republicans and 17 points among independents. Half of all independents supported stricter gun laws in 2007; now only a third of them do.
    [​IMG]



    The poll, based on phone interviews with 1,023 U.S. adults from Friday through Sunday, were conducted after Friday's mass shooting in Binghamton, New York, where 13 people were killed at an immigrant services center.
    On the issue of whether gun laws should be stricter, the poll contains a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The breakdown of opinions on that issue over party lines had a sampling error of plus or minus 5.5 percentage points.
     
  17. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  18. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  19. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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  20. Kristopher Glanville

    Kristopher Glanville Well-Known Member

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