How Tariffs May Affect Eye Care

How Tariffs May Affect Eye Care
By Gretchyn M. Bailey, NCLC, FAAO


With the recent change in US leadership, tariffs have become part of day-to-day conversation. A tariff is a tax placed on goods entering or leaving a country by that country’s government.

For many, tariffs belong in macro economic discussions. However, tariffs have the potential to do more than affect multinational companies—effects from tariffs are likely to affect small independent businesses and ordinary people, such as optometrists and their patients.

At Vision Expo East in Orlando last week, in coordination with The Vision Council, attorney F.D. “Rick” Van Arnam, Jr., a partner at Barnes, Richardson & Colburn in New York, discussed how tariffs may affect eye care and outlined how today’s looming tariffs first became part of the landscape.

Tariff origins
In 2018, the Office of the United States Trade Representative opened a Section 301 investigation on intellectual property misappropriation by China that officials believe were adverse to US interests. Specifically, American companies were required to release proprietary technology to Chinese business partners as a prerequisite to the US company manufacturing or distributing in China.

Under Section 301 of the law, the federal government is able to take remedial steps to correct such bad actions. Therefore, a 25% tariff was assessed on merchandise made in China. At the time, the tariff was limited to products negatively affected by the Chinese bad actions, such as machinery. However, many more products were added to the tariff list.

China retaliated by enacting its own 25% tariff on US agriculture, of which China was a big consumer. China also identified other products that were subject to additional tariffs.

In return, the US created an additional tariff of 7.5% on a broader list of products—on top of the already established 2.5% duty on many imported items. That additional tariff increased duty on Chinese goods to 10%.

Note that a Court of Appeals case is challenging Section 301 tariffs. The case will likely be decided in the next few months, and the decision is likely to be appealed to the Supreme Court.

Eye care involvement
Eye care was affected by the additional tariffs by the involvement of things like spectacle lenses, plano sunglasses, over-the-counter (OTC) readers, low vision equipment, and lens finishing equipment.

However, companies were able to petition for relief—or exclusion—from Section 301 tariffs. If one company was granted exclusion, all other companies with similar products were also granted exclusion. For about a year, exclusions were issued for spectacle frames and reading glasses. Those exclusions ended in 2020, and attempts to renew them were not successful.

In February 2025, an additional 10% duty was announced for any Chinese origin product.

Says Van Arnam: “That 10% the eyewear company is paying to import those plastic spectacle frames from China just jumped to 20%. The same frame, if you bought it today from say Vietnam, would be a 2.5% duty; it is now 20% if it's coming from China. China is the biggest by far producer of of optical products, particularly frames.”

Mexico and Canada tariffs
Also in February 2025, a 25% tariff was announced for products coming from Mexico and Canada. This tariff was framed as action taken against the countries for allowing fentanyl and illegal immigrants into the US.

Says Van Arnam: “This was a huge deal because Mexico and Canada are two of our largest trading partners. “They are are border allies and historically have had good relations with the United States. “We have free trade agreements with both of them, which allow the vast majority of products that are made in Canada and Mexico to come into the United States free of duty and for products that are made in the United States to go into Canada and Mexico free of duty.”

Due to both Canada and Mexico making overtures to remedy the problems identified by the US, tariff enforcement was paused for 30 days. That 30-day period expires on March 4.

“Some companies in the eyecare industry who weren’t affected by the China trade were panicking because they would now be impacted by Canadian or Mexican trade,” says Van Arnam. “There is a lot of cross-border trade. You might have a lens processing facility on the Mexican side of the border with lenses sent over for processing and brought back into the United States for distribution.”

He wonders how the US will measure success for the remedies proposed by both countries.

“What metric do you use to measure fewer immigrants coming in or less fentanyl coming across the border?” he says.

Aluminum and steel
Within the past two weeks, a 25% tariff on raw aluminum and steel (and their derivative products) was announced. Most manufacturers in the eyecare space use both metals in their production, from frames to equipment.

Says Van Arnam: “These costs will ripple through the supply chain because I don’t believe any company will be big enough to absorb the cost and say it’s all on us.”

The additional duty will eventually end up in the cost of goods everywhere, including eye care. Van Arnam foresees challenges in the future because costs may not necessarily be passed onto patients or consumers due to negotiated contracts.

“Patients may have insurance which is paying only X amount,” he says. “Or maybe you’re selling frames to Veterans Affairs which won’t allow you to increase your price. There won't be a direct line from the 25% paid on the raw material to the finished value of the of the eyewear. Some of it will be absorbed, but at some point, you're going to see price hikes and hear people talking about how these tariffs will be inflationary.”

Tariffs on aluminum and steel were enacted prior to 2020; however, exclusions and agreements with other countries largely mitigated the effects. Those terms expire on March 12.

Reciprocal tariffs
The federal government is looking into imposing a tariff on all imported products, regardless of origin, to match the originating countries’ tariffs.

“There is a perceived injustice that the United States has tariffs that are historically lower than those of other countries while other countries have tariffs that are historically higher,” Van Arnam says. “The federal government is looking at what we charge for an item vs what country X charges for that item. If we are charging 2.5% for a pair of spectacle frames, and hypothetically, India is charging 10%, there is a 7.5% gap. Under the reciprocal theory, you would pay an extra 7.5% duty to import spectacle frames of Indian origin into the United States so the tariff amounts would match.”

Addressing reciprocal tariffs would likely create logistical challenges for smaller companies without the resources to quickly pivot.

Federal agencies involved with international trade are required to report by April 1 where reciprocal duties might apply. For example, will the duty apply to specific countries or specific products?

Upcoming tariff deadlines
• March 4: The 30-day pause on Mexican and Canadian tariffs expires. A 25% tariff may go into effect.
• March 12: Previous exclusions and agreements about raw aluminum and steel expire. A 25% tariff may go into effect.
• April 1: Reports due to identify where reciprocal tariffs might be applied.
 
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Several years ago, during the latter part of George W. Bush's tenure, we tried to bring in a "made in America" frame line because of the 'war on terror' everyone was waving flags and patriotism was high.

Couldn't get anyone to touch them. Too expensive was the universal complaint.
 
How do you guys handle the butcher's order? Our first time yielded some decent amount of steaks, some stir fry, and beef stew, and a truck load of ground beef. Next order I'd like to decrease the amount of ground beef for something else.
when ive ordered 1/2 or 1/3 cow, I've always been asked how I want the cuts. but its been a few years. last time my freezer got unplugged and didnt realize it..............
 
How do you guys handle the butcher's order? Our first time yielded some decent amount of steaks, some stir fry, and beef stew, and a truck load of ground beef. Next order I'd like to decrease the amount of ground beef for something else.
A little trial & error. Everyone has their preference for steak thickness, % fat in the burgers, etc.
There are a few items I know I don't want (heart, tongue, etc.), but know there are people out there that love so I just tell the butcher to give them to someone he knows will use them.

Too much burger? Go heavier on the roasts next time.

I like my steaks thicker & packaged by 2's instead of 4's or individual.
I have a lot of 1/3 lb patties made since those are so easy to give away to friends/family.

A good butcher will know what questions to ask.
 
A little trial & error. Everyone has their preference for steak thickness, % fat in the burgers, etc.
There are a few items I know I don't want (heart, tongue, etc.), but know there are people out there that love so I just tell the butcher to give them to someone he knows will use them.

Too much burger? Go heavier on the roasts next time.

I like my steaks thicker & packaged by 2's instead of 4's or individual.
I have a lot of 1/3 lb patties made since those are so easy to give away to friends/family.

A good butcher will know what questions to ask.
Thanks, I don't think we did much if any on the roasts. I think that was our problem.
 
Several years ago, during the latter part of George W. Bush's tenure, we tried to bring in a "made in America" frame line because of the 'war on terror' everyone was waving flags and patriotism was high.

Couldn't get anyone to touch them. Too expensive was the universal complaint.
Given that you set the pricing, that sounds more like a profit margin issue than an American frame issue. Maybe our part is to be willing to cut our margins a little to be able to keep American companies afloat?
 
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Thanks, I don't think we did much if any on the roasts. I think that was our problem.
You just really need to sit down and think about what you want to eat. For my family, it’s all steaks, brisket, beef ribs and hamburger. Hamburger can be used in everything (hamburgers, tacos, spaghetti sauce…just a hundred easy things), so we use a lot of it.

For my brother in law, they’re all about the roasts and stews, so he gets some hamburger and the rest is steaks, roasts and stew meat.

The nice thing about something like this is that they’ll tailor it to what your family likes.
 
You just really need to sit down and think about what you want to eat. For my family, it’s all steaks, brisket, beef ribs and hamburger. Hamburger can be used in everything (hamburgers, tacos, spaghetti sauce…just a hundred easy things), so we use a lot of it.

For my brother in law, they’re all about the roasts and stews, so he gets some hamburger and the rest is steaks, roasts and stew meat.

The nice thing about something like this is that they’ll tailor it to what your family likes.
The stews are much more in line with my wife's cultural cooking habits. It was just the first time through was a little confusing, so we ended up with more hamburger than I thought, but we just ended up eating more spaghetti bolognese and Swedish meatballs than we typicall do.
 
Given that you set the pricing, that sounds more like a profit margin issue than an American frame issue. Maybe our part is to be willing to cut our margins a little to be able to keep American

Markup was the same as every other frame we had. Even if we marked up 50% less than we normally would have, still probably would have not moved the needle. This was unfortunately also at the start of the real estate crash and people were starting to pinch every penny they could.

Might have been just bad timing. I wouldn’t be against trying it again.
 
This in from Essilor today, I see that there's no change in Vision Plan jobs


EL Logo 2
Dear Valued Partner,

In a world of change and uncertainty, we strive to be a partner that prioritizes the things that matter most to our customers: trust, transparency, quality and service. As the global trade environment weighs heavily on your minds, you can be certain that we are working hard to navigate these changes so they have as little impact on you as possible.

Leaning into our strong U.S. footprint and global supply chain, which gives us an unmatched flexibility, we have activated several initiatives to offset the impact of tariff-related costs. While we managed to absorb the vast majority of these costs, it is still necessary for us to implement some minimal changes: Effective May 19, 2025, we will add a $3.48 surcharge to each pair of private pay lenses, and a 6% price increase on stock lenses. The surcharge will appear as a separate line item on the invoice labeled "Tariff Surcharge” to allow for transparency.

This is not a decision we took lightly. Because we remain optimistic about the long-term environment, we designed the changes to be flexible. As tariff conditions evolve, we will be able to adjust quickly. We will continue to manage expenses internally, always prioritizing our commitment to service and quality. At the same time, we continue to invest in the kind of innovation that creates new opportunities and cultivates resilience for the industry in times like these.

Your continued trust means everything to us, and we remain committed to delivering value, reliability, and support during this difficult period. If you have any questions, your account executive is always available to support you.

Thank you for your understanding and continued partnership.

Warm regards,

Jessica Kozak
SVP, US Independent Eyecare Sales and Business Development
 
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April 25, 2025
From Luxottica




Dear Valued Partner,



We deeply appreciate your ongoing partnership and shared commitment to delivering exceptional eyecare products and services. Your dedication drives us to uphold superior standards, ensuring patients and consumers receive products they trust.



Despite economic challenges like inflation, rising manufacturing costs and other global factors, we remain focused on innovation—investing heavily in design, engineering, and supply chain advancements, allowing us to bring you cutting-edge solutions and maintain our focus on excellence.



While we will absorb most of the impact from these economic factors internally thanks to our global footprint, we have decided to implement a necessary price increase across our frame brands, effective May 5, 2025. Any order placed on or after this date will be subject to the updated price list, which your account manager or sales representative will share with you.



The price change will reflect a +6% increase across our frames portfolio, including accessories, spare parts and our branded authentic lenses. Additionally, there is currently no price increase for Ray-Ban Meta.



Additionally, these adjustments will affect brands under our Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) policy, with the Standard MAP price list available within the coming days on my.essilorluxottica.com.



We remain committed to supporting the success of your business and driving heightened consumer demand for our brands. By investing in awareness-building initiatives, we aim to strengthen the connection between your consumers and their favorite brands.



Thank you once again for your invaluable partnership and trust in us. Please do not hesitate to reach out to our teams should you have any questions.





Kind Regards,

EssilorLuxottica Professional Solutions NA
 
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April 25, 2025
From Luxottica




Dear Valued Partner,



We deeply appreciate your ongoing partnership and shared commitment to delivering exceptional eyecare products and services. Your dedication drives us to uphold superior standards, ensuring patients and consumers receive products they trust.



Despite economic challenges like inflation, rising manufacturing costs and other global factors, we remain focused on innovation—investing heavily in design, engineering, and supply chain advancements, allowing us to bring you cutting-edge solutions and maintain our focus on excellence.



While we will absorb most of the impact from these economic factors internally thanks to our global footprint, we have decided to implement a necessary price increase across our frame brands, effective May 5, 2025. Any order placed on or after this date will be subject to the updated price list, which your account manager or sales representative will share with you.



The price change will reflect a +6% increase across our frames portfolio, including accessories, spare parts and our branded authentic lenses. Additionally, there is currently no price increase for Ray-Ban Meta.



Additionally, these adjustments will affect brands under our Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) policy, with the Standard MAP price list available within the coming days on my.essilorluxottica.com.



We remain committed to supporting the success of your business and driving heightened consumer demand for our brands. By investing in awareness-building initiatives, we aim to strengthen the connection between your consumers and their favorite brands.



Thank you once again for your invaluable partnership and trust in us. Please do not hesitate to reach out to our teams should you have any questions.





Kind Regards,

EssilorLuxottica Professional Solutions NA

6% is milder than I thought it would be, honestly. They must be eating a bunch of margin on a lot of those frames to maintain market share. Which they are in a position to do, obviously.

I'll be curious to see if their competitors match this rate increase, or have to go higher.
 
6% is milder than I thought it would be, honestly. They must be eating a bunch of margin on a lot of those frames to maintain market share. Which they are in a position to do, obviously.

I'll be curious to see if their competitors match this rate increase, or have to go higher.
Weve recently started using a small lab that’s giving us great prices and our use of the Essilor lab has decreased by about 90%. We only use it when absolutely required to by insurance.

The Essilor rep is trying to get us to use them more and we asked him to send us his absolute best prices. Instead, we got this email about them raising prices!
 
I am thinking the tariffs should be based on their acquisition price, not their retail prices (or do we call that our wholesale prices?) that they are charging us. They are very likely sourcing those materials for much less then they are charging us, do the tariffs should be less. They is probably how they came up with 6%. But are they going to remove that 6% if there is a favorable tariff agreement?
 
First trade deal was done, and the UK dropped their tariff significantly but the US will keep 10% tariff on goods. So it seems the strategy and goal is to actually keep tariffs on products. Trump said 10% is probably the lowest and the UK got 10% because they were the first to come to the table.

So am I reading the chart right that the UK will get cheaper products from the US now, but the US consumers will be paying higher prices for products from the UK? I thought the goal was to get everyone has 0%? Also how can the $6 billion from the tariffs be external revenue when it will be the US paying it?

And relating this to eye care, if this is the trend it appears the prices on products will not be going down the the tariff charges will be here to stay. We have been getting notices of higher prices due to tariffs it seems like every day lately, we've officially gone through and changed price on most of our frames unfortunately.

tradedeal.PNG
 
It's unfortunate but you can pretty much assume someone's opinion on Tariff's bases solely on their political Party association. Certain Partisans in particular especially. Results be damned.

Kinda like reading a news article. Look at the source and the topic and if you have half a brain you know what the article is going to say before you even read it.

Sad state of affairs.
 
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A friend of mine owns a number of businesses in Michigan, mostly gas stations and restaurants. He recently commented that he needs to do ~$160,000 worth of repairs and if he had not placed the order this week he would have faced a $60,000 tariff bill if existing inventory were depleted before placing the order. He was also complaining that he can't get any hard quotes for a specific type of steel required because suppliers won't take on the risk of pricing changes.
 
Also how can the $6 billion from the tariffs be external revenue when it will be the US paying it?
Same reason he says gas is 2 bucks and eggs are down 80, 90, 92%, or whatever number pops in his head. He lies and his people don't care. It's also suddenly patriotic to pay more even though everything is apparently so much cheaper and tariffs won't raise prices. None of it really makes any sense, just roll with it.
 
It's unfortunate but you can pretty much assume someone's opinion on Tariff's bases solely on their political Party association. Certain Partisans in particular especially. Results be damned.

Kinda like reading a news article. Look at the source and the topic and if you have half a brain you know what the article is going to say before you even read it.

Sad state of affairs.
Most economic folks and "Conservative" outlets like Wall Street Journal also don't like them.

How is adding a 10% charge or more on everything we buy from overseas a good thing? I'm literally seeing higher prices on most of our goods coming in. From lenses, frames to equipment.

I would have game some credit if it came back and both the U.S. and UK were both at 0%. I'm also going to claim BS if just certain companies or industries get exemptions.
 
Same reason he says gas is 2 bucks and eggs are down 80, 90, 92%, or whatever number pops in his head. He lies and his people don't care. It's also suddenly patriotic to pay more even though everything is apparently so much cheaper and tariffs won't raise prices. None of it really makes any sense, just roll with it.
I'm sure if Kamala was elected, caused a steep drop in the stock market (still down YTD) and after purposefully raising prices said the quote of something like "Americans are rich enough as it is, it is your patriotic duty to pay more" a lot of people on here probably wouldn't be happy to hear that.
 
I'm sure if Kamala was elected, caused a steep drop in the stock market (still down YTD) and after purposefully raising prices said the quote of something like "Americans are rich enough as it is, it is your patriotic duty to pay more" a lot of people on here probably wouldn't be happy to hear that.
The girls don't need 30 dolls, they only need 2 that might "cost a couple more bucks"! The kids don't need 250 pencils, they only need 5. The children yearn for the mines!
 
Lets face it, some people WANT him to fail regardless the consequences. Marxism at it's finest (worst).
Yes, the wives of many of my friends seem every day to want him to fail. In the meantime they love love love the "big man" in Illinois, aka the gov.
 
I can't wait to hear the spin from naysayers when the market is at all time high in the near future, GDP is way up and the National Debt is down.


Lets face it, some people WANT him to fail regardless the consequences. Marxism at it's finest (worst).
Wait, now I'm wondering if we have the same sources.

GDP was down last quarter due to the tariffs, first time to happen in over 3 years. One more and that is considered a recession.
https://www.businessinsider.com/gdp...outlook-economy-2025-4?utm_source=chatgpt.com

And if this spending bill goes through it will add over $4 Trillion to the national debt due to cutting taxes, but not cutting spending by enough.
https://nypost.com/2025/02/12/us-ne...east-4-5t-in-tax-cuts/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

I used "conservative" sources for that info. It is hard to talk about current affairs I guess when we can't even agree on what information is true.

Edit: Okay but did you edit and take out the comments about GDP is up, and national debt is down???

If the tariffs stay on consumers are going to slow down spending, or at least pause to see where the dust settles. I would fully give a thumbs up and be more pumped if the tariffs were taken off and both countries had actual free trade.
 
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GDP LAST quarter? Who gives a F! I'm talking the FUTURE man!

Spending Bill? I'm talking revenue from Tariffs man! Keep up.

Look. There's a silver lining for the Marxists. If everything goes to crap (Marxist will be so happy) then you can flip Congress and the Senate and attempt impeachment. Then you're dealing with JD. Is that good for Marxists or bad, IDK? :rolleyes:

If that fails the Marxists can pray for another COVID.

Either way.....'MERICA! I have honestly NEVER rooted for failure of any US President's policies, regardless if I voted for them or not. First and foremost I am an American and a Patriot. Can the Marxists say the same?
 
Show real stats, and prefer free trade and lower prices = Marxist. Okay. No real point to continue here.

Back to the eye portion, it seems like higher prices for eye products are here to stay. And that seems to be the strategy to plan accordingly. I personally don't feel like I need to eat 10% on my COGs for the next 3 years and will keep monitoring the prices coming into our office.
 
Yes, the wives of many of my friends seem every day to want him to fail. In the meantime they love love love the "big man" in Illinois, aka the gov.
I think your friends need good divorce attorneys. I imagine those kinds of marriages end up with the man playing the role of the bottom. If ya know ya know.
 
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Show real stats, and prefer free trade and lower prices = Marxist. Okay. No real point to continue here.

Back to the eye portion, it seems like higher prices for eye products are here to stay. And that seems to be the strategy to plan accordingly. I personally don't feel like I need to eat 10% on my COGs for the next 3 years and will keep monitoring the prices coming into our office.
Free trade? Is that what we had with China? China currency manipulation and requiring American corporations to divulge trade secrets to access their consumers? You're right it's pointless. You've drank the Kool Aid and addicted to cheap Chinese goods. Just like American Corporations, sold out.

Now back to eye products. You have a choice who you do business with. You can also raise your fees a few bucks to offset. If Americans are wealthier they can afford it. Totally anti-Marxist. 'Merica.
 
Free trade? Is that what we had with China? China currency manipulation and requiring American corporations to divulge trade secrets to access their consumers? You're right it's pointless. You've drank the Kool Aid and addicted to cheap Chinese goods. Just like American Corporations, sold out.

Now back to eye products. You have a choice who you do business with. You can also raise your fees a few bucks to offset. If Americans are wealthier they can afford it. Totally anti-Marxist. 'Merica.
Dude, why are you even bothering? These people don’t care about facts, they don’t care about the long-term success of the country, they only care about Party and Trump failing. It’s the only thing that matters to them. Facts be damned, logic be damned.

For that matter, do you even need to read the posts? I certainly don’t. I see who’s posting and I and KNOW what they posted without even reading it.
 
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It's unfortunate but you can pretty much assume someone's opinion on Tariff's bases solely on their political Party association. Certain Partisans in particular especially. Results be damned.

Kinda like reading a news article. Look at the source and the topic and if you have half a brain you know what the article is going to say before you even read it.

Sad state of affairs.
Sort of like knowing their political association based on whether someone thinks 'Ivermectin' is a miracle drug that cures everything from covid to cancer

Much like Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine before, 90% of Americans had never even heard the word 'tariff' up until about 10 minutes ago. Now, almost every person in the country thinks tariffs are the greatest thing in the history of the universe and they will "Make America Great Again" inside of six months or they are the worst thing in the history of America and they will bankrupt America within six months.

The reality....probably somewhere in the middle if done right.

Here's the way I see it.....tariffs, much like everything Trump (and Biden) does has a modicum of usefulness to it, in theory. We saw during covid that we couldn't get medicines or medical supplies without getting into a bidding war with the rest of the world. That's obviously not good. We should be making at least some of that stuff here. We should be making some of our own steel. We should be building some of our own ships. We shouldn't be relying on 90% of our computer chips coming from a country that China could overrun in about 72 hours.

But I certainly do not see Americans lining up en masse to score one of those sweet manufacturing jobs in the re-shored Cambodian shoe factory or the factory that makes Barbies or whatever the shit they put inside Happy Meals.

Throwing enormous tariffs on the entire world, friend and foe alike to bring these amorphous "manufacturing jobs" home seems extremely short sighted. It takes a long time to build a factory and the cost to do so and to employ the people to run it is going to make the cost of the Barbies and happy meal toys ridiculously high, to the point that fewer and fewer people will buy Barbies and then the Barbie factory closes and now there's 800 people unemployed. Or however many people work in a Barbie factory. Soooooooo.....all the pain for virtually none of the gain.
 
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I can't wait to hear the spin from naysayers when the market is at all time high in the near future, GDP is way up and the National Debt is down.


Lets face it, some people WANT him to fail regardless the consequences. Marxism at it's finest (worst).
They will say the same things republicans said when unemployment was near record lows under Obama. We will hear things about the "true unemployment rate" or how wages haven't kept up with inflation or some other reason about why that number doesn't really matter.

The stock market was at all time high under Biden. We will hear how the stock market "isn't a true indicator of the health of a nation's economy." We will hear how the stock market "just helps Wall Street and not Main Street."

Here's an article from late 2023 from the man himself where he talks about the stock market "just making rich people richer."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...et-just-making-rich-people-richer-2023-12-18/

Then, in early 2025 when it was at another record, he declared he was making America wealthy again.

Then, a few short months later, he said he didn't care about the stock market at all and kids should expect to have less dolls at Christmas time and less pencils in school.

Now, after a recent rally, he touts the stock market is great again and that we should all be jumping back into the market.

Not all of Trump's ideas are bad. Some of them are good. Virtually everyone supports the idea of a "secure border" but when you start throwing German tourists in jail or throwing a 19 year old college student who's parents brought her here when she was two years because she rolled through a four way stop sign, that's probably not going to over well in the long run. So....maybe focus on the drug dealers and the sex offenders first.
 
I know even agreeing on simple facts right now hard, but can we all agree that WE as consumers pay the tariff? Okay, and if we can agree on that we can move onto my next questions, and see if we can answer them without just saying this is 'Merica just pay more and love it or you're just a communist or something.

If we pay the tariff:

1. Why is it good and considered a "win" in trade for US folks to pay more for imports?

2. I think, maybe I'm wrong, but by applying anywhere from 10% to 100% tariffs is the strategy is to drop demand for international products so that we buy more American products even if they are more expensive, and hopefully companies will bring manufacturing to the US to try and avoid tariffs? Do I have this correct?

3. With Midterms in less then 2 years, and Trump not having another term does the fact that all it takes is for the next person to say if I'm elected all Tariffs will be completely removed will most likely stop most planning for moving manufacturing. Also, it will never make sense to move some of the manufacturing here just because of price to produce certain goods.

4. Can we all agree it will be BS if certain large companies and industries (Apple, Motor, Chips etc) can just lobby or pay to have their markets exempt while the rest of us pay more. Giving $10 Million to the Trump meme coin to get your products in free doesn't quite seem right.

I agree we should bring things back to the US, and not rely so heavy on other countries. But it seems this might not be the best long term answer, but I'm open to actual interpretation on this.
 
Sort of like knowing their political association based on whether someone thinks 'Ivermectin' is a miracle drug that cures everything from covid to cancer

Much like Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine before, 90% of Americans had never even heard the word 'tariff' up until about 10 minutes ago. Now, almost every person in the country thinks tariffs are the greatest thing in the history of the universe and they will "Make America Great Again" inside of six months or they are the worst thing in the history of America and they will bankrupt America within six months.

The reality....probably somewhere in the middle if done right.

Here's the way I see it.....tariffs, much like everything Trump (and Biden) does has a modicum of usefulness to it, in theory. We saw during covid that we couldn't get medicines or medical supplies without getting into a bidding war with the rest of the world. That's obviously not good. We should be making at least some of that stuff here. We should be making some of our own steel. We should be building some of our own ships. We shouldn't be relying on 90% of our computer chips coming from a country that China could overrun in about 72 hours.

But I certainly do not see Americans lining up en masse to score one of those sweet manufacturing jobs in the re-shored Cambodian shoe factory or the factory that makes Barbies or whatever the shit they put inside Happy Meals.

Throwing enormous tariffs on the entire world, friend and foe alike to bring these amorphous "manufacturing jobs" home seems extremely short sighted. It takes a long time to build a factory and the cost to do so and to employ the people to run it is going to make the cost of the Barbies and happy meal toys ridiculously high, to the point that fewer and fewer people will buy Barbies and then the Barbie factory closes and now there's 800 people unemployed. Or however many people work in a Barbie factory. Soooooooo.....all the pain for virtually none of the gain.
So, you don’t understand our current situation. Gotcha.

Virtually every large factory in America runs at roughly 50% capacity and many have been shuttered completely (especially in the automotive space), so we could double our production of almost everything tomorrow. Workforce is a potential issue, but that’s also fixable…assuming we’re actually willing to do the mildly uncomfortable things required to fix our situation.

What’s interesting is that there are hours and hours of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer railing about how we need tariffs, we have to have tariffs, why won’t the damned Republicans give us tariffs to protect our workers and bring back manufacturing…until the Republicans do it, then they’re economy killers.

Typical dumbness
 
What’s interesting is that there are hours and hours of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer railing about how we need tariffs, we have to have tariffs, why won’t the damned Republicans give us tariffs to protect our workers and bring back manufacturing…until the Republicans do it, then they’re economy killers.
Because no one has an issue with tariffs. They're a tool. They're not inherently good or bad. It's like having an issue with a crescent wrench. Works great when appropriate, not so great when you decide you're going to use it for everything.
 
Because no one has an issue with tariffs. They're a tool. They're not inherently good or bad. It's like having an issue with a crescent wrench. Works great when appropriate, not so great when you decide you're going to use it for everything.
trade is global, quite likely all countries activities relate in whatever percentage and numbers but it seems to make sense to get it all aligned if possible and if helpful for America to do so

so maybe now that some have been reduced and some eliminated and some paused that he's quite possibly doing it right? l am guessing you think not

there can't ever possibly be a scenario that this ends up working out better than not for America, is there?
 
So, you don’t understand our current situation. Gotcha.

Virtually every large factory in America runs at roughly 50% capacity and many have been shuttered completely (especially in the automotive space), so we could double our production of almost everything tomorrow. Workforce is a potential issue, but that’s also fixable…assuming we’re actually willing to do the mildly uncomfortable things required to fix our situation.

What’s interesting is that there are hours and hours of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer railing about how we need tariffs, we have to have tariffs, why won’t the damned Republicans give us tariffs to protect our workers and bring back manufacturing…until the Republicans do it, then they’re economy killers.

Typical dumbness
So I'm part of the generation that doesn't just take people's word on things and look it up. The U.S. has a very strong and robust manufacturing base. Not even close to 50%. It is considered robust if we run at 75-85% capacity and the last Federal Reserve report showed we were at 77% and it was doing well.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g17/current/default.htm?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Again we are the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world and it isn't even close.
 
Hyundai recently announced that that are moving a major additional component of their manufacturing to the U.S., but that has been in the works, since like 2018-2019.

But also recently I believe Honda has announced plans to move more manufacturing to the U.S, bring thousands of high paying factory jobs to the U.S. Other high technology manufacturers are also looking to bring more production to the U.S. Those damn iPhones and Macbooks need to be produced somewhere besides China.

Regarding Barbies, they can keep making them in Viet Nam.