Hair Salons

[Ally Stoeger OD]

I noticed the recent thread about Dentists - a blog on Hair Salons that is along the same lines. Note the question at the end--

www.RealPracticeToday.com
Inspirations from a Haircut
May 27th, 2010

I have a love/hate relationship with my beauty salon. I love it because I always look better coming out than I did going in. I hate it because I can’t help but think -

1. the haircut costs more than what I get reimbursed from vision plans.

2. the salon gets paid immediately. I have to first submit the exam fee to a health insurance company or vision plan

3. the hairdresser gets a tip. I have to spend money on staff to submit the claim, reconcile the claim and then bill the patient for the portion the health insurance company did not cover. Plus my staff has to spend countless hours answering complicated insurance questions.

4. Women see their hairdresser twice a year, 6 times a year, 12 times per year or even more. They pay for each visit and they leave a tip at the end each visit. They pay, they tip. Yet patients will not come in for a once a year eye examinatiion if their insurance only covers every 2 years.

Can we EVER afford a health care system where 30% or more of the dollar goes to the care and feeding of insurance companies and the associated staff expenses that go along with submitting claims? I’ve heard 30% is the right number but am not sure - anyone out there have a good reference as to what the percentage acutally is?

Ally Stoeger OD
www.RealPracticeToday.com
www.twitter.com/AllyStoeger

 

[DavidWells]

Very well put! I use this analogy, also.

 

[Fred Bresler]

My wife just spent $320 at a salon for straightening and coloring. This from a yound lady with atrade school degree.

 

[Ally Stoeger OD]

There are different types of hair straightening processes. $320 for straightening and color is on the low end. These two services can easily approach $500 - $600 and up.

 

[John Boer]

My wife just spent $320 at a salon for straightening and coloring. This from a yound lady with atrade school degree.

My wife would be sleeping in the yard if she spent that much on her hair.

 

[Jonathan Warner]

My wife could forget about our summer vacation if she spent that much money on her hair. (Fortunately, she would never do that.)

Excellent thread, Ally. I remember years ago, an OD wrote a letter to the editor of RO or OM saying how his daughter, a hair stylist, was better off financially than he was! I can't say I was surprised. All the hair salons around here seem to be busy in spite of the state of the economy. Clearly, people value there hair more than there eyes.

 

[Fred Bresler]

Oh, thanks-so instead of 8 eyemed exams, closer 14!

There are different types of hair straightening processes. $320 for straightening and color is on the low end. These two services can easily approach $500 - $600 and up.

 

[Ken Elder]

Oh, thanks-so instead of 8 eyemed exams, closer 14!

I think we need to stop making these comparisons. Yes, a hair treatment may cost a few hundreds dollars but correct me if I'm wrong, a hair treatment can take an hour and a half. An efficient eye exam can take 10 minutes.

Also, when people complain about electricians and plumbers not even coming out for less than $75 and charging $120 to fix a problem in 20 minutes, understand that they were at your house for 20 minutes. They had to drive TO your house and then drive FROM your house which may have taken them who knows how long? In our offices, patients come to US.

So yes, I agree that optometric services are generally undervalued by the public and fees are often times not commensurate with our education but I don't know too many hair stylists pulling in multi six figure incomes.

So let's try to keep things in perspective here.

 

[terry schitoskey]

I have seen the optometry/hair salon linkage my entire career. MANY no-shows and late pt or reschedules due to conflicts with a hair appointment.

On the positive side; people vain enough to spend hundreds of $ on their hair when they could look good for a whole lot less are also willing to spend hundreds of $ on designer frames in your optical when a much lower priced frame would do just fine.

 

[Ally Stoeger OD]

Regarding sleeping in the yard -Husbands may underestimate the number of women who keep slush funds to cover salon expenses. "Natural" beauty can be very expensive.

The type of tips hairdressers often receive are not the couple of dollars that men give their barber. When services are in the $100-$500 range the tips are often in the $15 -$75 range.

People willingly pay for regular salon care because they expect to. They are more reticent about paying for eye care because they assume their health plan or vision plan should be paying for it all. People don't mind paying for things they expect to pay for --they hate paying for things they think someone else should be paying for.

 

[Jonathan Warner]

Ally,

What is the organizations(s) you are connected with?

 

[Mike Sandy]

http://www.consultingwithvision.com/whycwv.php

 

[Tom Miller]

I think we need to stop making these comparisons. Yes, a hair treatment may cost a few hundreds dollars but correct me if I'm wrong, a hair treatment can take an hour and a half. An efficient eye exam can take 10 minutes.

Also, when people complain about electricians and plumbers not even coming out for less than $75 and charging $120 to fix a problem in 20 minutes, understand that they were at your house for 20 minutes. They had to drive TO your house and then drive FROM your house which may have taken them who knows how long? In our offices, patients come to US.

So yes, I agree that optometric services are generally undervalued by the public and fees are often times not commensurate with our education but I don't know too many hair stylists pulling in multi six figure incomes.

So let's try to keep things in perspective here.

Hate to disagree with you Ken, but the blue collar folks really do make more than we do. Because they have WAY less overhead. So even with the drive to my house, they make more. For every $100 I make, at least $70 is gone in overhead immediately.

My latest example: I had some trees cut down in my yard. Dude (and he was a 'dude') and his partner came by with their truck (maybe $6,000) and a limb/stump grinder ($4,000 per him). So with his $10,000 investment and a heavy dose of manhood, he climbed up those trees and they were all down and cut up in 2 hours.

My cost: $1,200 cash. $600/hr minus $1.00 worth of gas for the chain saw....... Not bad, I'd say (although I'd imagine his insurance is high if he has any). That's $300/hr and he was on his way down the road to do another house. (Another quote from an different older 'dude' was $1,400).

That'll buy him alot of beer this holiday weekend.

Many of these 'blue collar' people like the tree trimmer and hair dresser probably just don't know how to manage their money. It's all spent on Bud and smokes. (Not all--just profililng ).

I know because I used to be one:
Former construction worker
Former electrician's helper
Former security guard
Former heat/air tech
Former delivery truck driver

The goal for most of the guys I worked with was to work enough (work 2 month...off two months) to make just enough money to pay rent on the double-wide and some beer and maybe a new tattoo for the ol'e lady.

 

[Jonathan Warner]

Hate to disagree with you Ken, but the blue collar folks really do make more than we do. Because they have WAY less overhead. So even with the drive to my house, they make more. For every $100 I make, at least $70 is gone in overhead immediately.

My latest example: I had some trees cut down in my yard. Dude (and he was a 'dude') and his partner came by with their truck (maybe $6,000) and a limb/stump grinder ($4,000 per him). So with his $10,000 investment and a heavy dose of manhood, he climbed up those trees and they were all down and cut up in 2 hours.

My cost: $1,200 cash. $600/hr minus $1.00 worth of gas for the chain saw....... Not bad, I'd say (although I'd imagine his insurance is high if he has any). That's $300/hr and he was on his way down the road to do another house. (Another quote from an different older 'dude' was $1,400).

That'll buy him alot of beer this holiday weekend.

Many of these 'blue collar' people like the tree trimmer and hair dresser probably just don't know how to manage their money. It's all spent on Bud and smokes. (Not all--just profililng ).

I know because I used to be one:
Former construction worker
Former electrician's helper
Former security guard
Former heat/air tech
Former delivery truck driver

The goal for most of the guys I worked with was to work enough (work 2 month...off two months) to make just enough money to pay rent on the double-wide and some beer and maybe a new tattoo for the ol'e lady.

If some guy is running a blue collar business and is busy most of the time, he's making a boatload of money. Read the book "The Millionnaire Next Door". Most of those millionaires are self employed people in blue collar businesses.

 

[Ken Elder]

If some guy is running a blue collar business and is busy most of the time, he's making a boatload of money. Read the book "The Millionnaire Next Door". Most of those millionaires are self employed people in blue collar businesses.

Then why aren't we doing it?

 

[Tom Miller]

The Millionare Next Door

It's a good book. Everyone should read it. In a nutshell, it says the average millionare is not driving a Rolls Royce or living in a mansion. He/She is first generation rich, a dairy farmer, trash company owner, mobile home park owner, welding contractor, auctioneer, paving contractor, etc.... Most are humble and don't flaunt their wealth.

The authors also say, in general, doctors of all types are incredibly terrible with their money and not necessarily prone to acquire wealth because they spend to "look like doctors".

They do have a table called:

THE TOP TEN PROFITABLE SOLD-PROPRIETORSHIP BUSINESSES

1. Coal mining
2. Office of Physicians
3. Office of Osteopathic Physicians
4. Offices of Dentists
5. Offices of Optometrists
6. Bowling Centers
7. Offices of Chiropractors
8. Drug Stores
9. Veterianarian Services
10. Legal Services

They list 7 factors common to people that become wealthy

1. They live below their means.
2. They allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently.
3. They believe financial independence is more important than displaying weath.
4. Their parents did not provide economic outpatient care (mommy and daddy didn't give them money).
5. Their adult children are economically self-sufficient.
6. They are proficient in targeting market opportunities.
7. They chose the right profession.

Perhaps the most interesting finding of these professor's studies was that there was actually a negative relationship between higher education and wealth building. The bulk of the millionares they interviewed listed "no college", "some college" or "4 year college degree" as their highest education obtained. Once they got into the advanced degrees they began to see accumulated wealth decrease. They attribute it partly to delayed income of those with professional degrees but mostly .....................doctors just spend too much money and save too little!

 

[Ken Elder]

It's a good book. Everyone should read it. In a nutshell, it says the average millionare is not driving a Rolls Royce or living in a mansion. He/She is first generation rich, a dairy farmer, trash company owner, mobile home park owner, welding contractor, auctioneer, paving contractor, etc.... Most are humble and don't flaunt their wealth.

The authors also say, in general, doctors of all types are incredibly terrible with their money and not necessarily prone to acquire wealth because they spend to "look like doctors".

They do have a table called:

THE TOP TEN PROFITABLE SOLD-PROPRIETORSHIP BUSINESSES

1. Coal mining
2. Office of Physicians
3. Office of Osteopathic Physicians
4. Offices of Dentists
5. Offices of Optometrists
6. Bowling Centers
7. Offices of Chiropractors
8. Drug Stores
9. Veterianarian Services
10. Legal Services

They list 7 factors common to people that become wealthy

1. They live below their means.
2. They allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently.
3. They believe financial independence is more important than displaying weath.
4. Their parents did not provide economic outpatient care (mommy and daddy didn't give them money).
5. Their adult children are economically self-sufficient.
6. They are proficient in targeting market opportunities.
7. They chose the right profession.

Yes, obviously living beyond one's means is never good but if we limit the discussion to optometry, I see VERY few ODs flaunting wealth or living beyond their means. I guess I should say I don't see ODs flaunting wealth because who KNOWS what someone does to live beyond their means.

I"m also interested in item #7. They "chose" the right profession. What does that mean? Is tree surgeon the right profession? Or electrician?

I'm trying to think what I waste money on....I'll start another thread.

 

[Tom Miller]

Yes, obviously living beyond one's means is never good but if we limit the discussion to optometry, I see VERY few ODs flaunting wealth or living beyond their means. I guess I should say I don't see ODs flaunting wealth because who KNOWS what someone does to live beyond their means.

I"m also interested in item #7. They "chose" the right profession. What does that mean? Is tree surgeon the right profession? Or electrician?

I'm trying to think what I waste money on....I'll start another thread.

Hey Ken, it's not too hard. I've got an example:

# 1
I know an OD that has his cars paid off, lives in a modest home that is paid off, has paid off his school loans and has zero credit card debt. He wants to buy a next Lexus and his wife would like to get a pool and a beach home. He could do it, but he'd be paying out alot of money. He choses to keep living lean and stocking money away by maxing out Roth and Simple IRAs and buying real estate. He plans to be a millionare by age 50.

# 2
His neighbor is a 50 year-old school teacher with a semi-retired husband. They just "moved up" to a new house with a 30 yr mortgage. They have a beach house that they are paying on. They financed a nice swimming pool in their back yard. She drive a new Mercedes and they just returned from a vacation to Europe financed on a credit card. She compains they are always broke and have creditors calling to collect.

See........ # 1 chose the right occupation (high income) and has lived below his means. He will be weatlhy one day.

# 2 choose a noble profession that is known to be low-paying. But she is living like she makes 5 times as much as she actually does. She will be in debt well into her 80's.

 

[Daniel Navarro]

Hey Ken, it's not too hard. I've got an example:

# 1
I know an OD that has his cars paid off, lives in a modest home that is paid off, has paid off his school loans and has zero credit card debt. He wants to buy a next Lexus and his wife would like to get a pool and a beach home. He could do it, but he'd be paying out alot of money. He choses to keep living lean and stocking money away by maxing out Roth and Simple IRAs and buying real estate. He plans to be a millionare by age 50.

# 2
His neighbor is a 50 year-old school teacher with a semi-retired husband. They just "moved up" to a new house with a 30 yr mortgage. They have a beach house that they are paying on. They financed a nice swimming pool in their back yard. She drive a new Mercedes and they just returned from a vacation to Europe financed on a credit card. She compains they are always broke and have creditors calling to collect.

See........ # 1 chose the right occupation (high income) and has lived below his means. He will be weatlhy one day.

# 2 choose a noble profession that is known to be low-paying. But she is living like she makes 5 times as much as she actually does. She will be in debt well into her 80's.

Person #2 is what is known in Texas as " All hat , no cattle".
Also known as the $30,000 millionaire. Someone who acts as if they are rich, and is not.

 

[Ken Elder]

Hey Ken, it's not too hard. I've got an example:

# 1
I know an OD that has his cars paid off, lives in a modest home that is paid off, has paid off his school loans and has zero credit card debt. He wants to buy a next Lexus and his wife would like to get a pool and a beach home. He could do it, but he'd be paying out alot of money. He choses to keep living lean and stocking money away by maxing out Roth and Simple IRAs and buying real estate. He plans to be a millionare by age 50.

# 2
His neighbor is a 50 year-old school teacher with a semi-retired husband. They just "moved up" to a new house with a 30 yr mortgage. They have a beach house that they are paying on. They financed a nice swimming pool in their back yard. She drive a new Mercedes and they just returned from a vacation to Europe financed on a credit card. She compains they are always broke and have creditors calling to collect.

See........ # 1 chose the right occupation (high income) and has lived below his means. He will be weatlhy one day.

# 2 choose a noble profession that is known to be low-paying. But she is living like she makes 5 times as much as she actually does. She will be in debt well into her 80's.

But in your other examples, you talk about electricians and plumbers being millionaires.

So it would seem to me that ANY profession is the right profession as long as you live within your means. So I guess I ask again.....in the context of that book, what profession IS the "right" profession if you can be a millionaire working any job?

 

[David W Miller]

Reminds me of a joke......

Guy has a plumbing problem, pulls out the Yellow Pages and calls a plumber. Plumber comes, fixes the problem and presents the homeowner with the bill.

"One hundred dollars?!?! You were only here 15 minutes. I'm a DOCTOR and I don't make that kind of money!"

Plumber says, "Yea, when I was a doctor, I didn't either!"

 

[Jonathan Warner]

But in your other examples, you talk about electricians and plumbers being millionaires.

So it would seem to me that ANY profession is the right profession as long as you live within your means. So I guess I ask again.....in the context of that book, what profession IS the "right" profession if you can be a millionaire working any job?

Ken,

From having read the book, the "right" profession is a blue collar self employment occupation, because they can make a lot of money, but not have to spend a lot of money to keep up appearances.

 

[Ken Elder]

Ken,

From having read the book, the "right" profession is a blue collar self employment occupation, because they can make a lot of money, but not have to spend a lot of money to keep up appearances.

Any ODs out there want to bag the old retinoscope and pick up a pipe wrench or a volt meter?

 

[Mike Sandy]

If you think there's an oversupply of OD's, just open a hair salon. Does your barber strike you as rich?

 

[Tom Miller]

If you think there's an oversupply of OD's, just open a hair salon. Does your barber strike you as rich?

Not my barber...he only charges $10...but then again he's like 98 and come to think of it, never wears glasses. No wonder my haircut looks so bad . Maybe he's got some Crystalens.

My ex-girl friend charges $100+ for a cut at an upscale salon. She jumps around from salon to salon all the time. What's up with hairdressers anyway? They never stay put. Too bad my old friend spends all her money on ???

Maybe it's constantly smelling all those chemicals that makes them so loopy.

 

[Mike Sandy]

Not my barber...he only charges $10...but then again he's like 98 and come to think of it, never wears glasses. No wonder my haircut looks so bad . Maybe he's got some Crystalens.

My ex-girl friend charges $100+ for a cut at an upscale salon. She jumps around from salon to salon all the time. What's up with hairdressers anyway? They never stay put. Too bad my old friend spends all her money on ???

Maybe it's constantly smelling all those chemicals that makes them so loopy.

My barber too! Mid-City Barbers, Memphis.

 

[Ally Stoeger OD]

hair stats

May 31 2010 Today show did a segment on "Why Are Women Obsessed With Hair" Gave stats that a Consumer Reports survey showed women on average get 5 haircuts per year and about 50% of the women also color or highlight their hair -- that usually means every 6 wks- 3 months. Many of the haircuts and most of the color and highlights + tips cost substantially more than what doctors are reimbursed for vision care eye exams. So maybe there's our answer. Hair is an obsession -- eye exams are not.

As far as the comment above that you can do an eye exam in 10 minutes but a haircut takes longer -- if you are doing a 10 minute exam I would assume you have substantial expenses for paraoptometric personnel. Plus pay someone to file/reconcile the claim.

Not saying I would rather be a hairdresser - just expressing frustration that while hairdresser fees appear to have kept up with the expense of doing business, vision plan reimbursement fees have not.