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CEwire2015

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by AdminWolf, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. Paul Farkas

    Paul Farkas Administrator

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  2. AdminWolf

    AdminWolf Site Administrator & Tech Lead
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    wow, i sound like Ohlson in that piece! What has become of me? :)
     
  3. Steve Silberberg

    Steve Silberberg ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    Great job Ms. Bailey
     
  4. Gretchyn Bailey

    Gretchyn Bailey ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    Thank you. Thank you very much.
     
  5. #85 Apr 4, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
    Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you sound a little like me. Maybe. Some of it. I have a few bones to pick. I'll bide my time. :)

    But, it's fun to watch this, I must say. There are some excellent points being made and some reasonable discussions among colleagues. Hell, that right there has a lot of merit, doesn't it?

    While optometry has many groups and challenges, the two that mean the most IMO are the patients and the ODs. Harm a patient or do something difficult to defend publicly and it's bad for all. The profession is really all of the ODs, not the various groups.

    I realize people disagree. C'est la vie. I wouldn't advise ignoring the concerns of the multiple stakeholders; that would be unwise. I just think it's best to remember what's really important to long-term public health and the actual success of a small health care profession as compared to short-term gain for some, a demonstrated and alarming lack of knowledge of 21st century requirements in self-regulation, acting on old grudges, and so on.

    That sounds like me.
     
  6. Richard Frankel

    Richard Frankel Well-Known Member

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    Hav
    Have you forgotten Batman Beyond?
     
  7. Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I see some merit in Batman Beyond, but I prefer the stories from the 1940s and some of the '50s. Along the way, some of the story lines and artwork have been quite good. Neal Adams drew some great Batman images in the sixties and '70s. Frank Miller's Dark Knight altered comics in the '80s and still does.

    The current comics are losing me, damn it. Must be getting old. These things happen.

    The idea of reacting to life's terrible trauma by attempting to create your best self in science, detective skills, and physical abilities so that others don't suffer in the same manner always appealed to me. Since age five. That's Batman. No super powers.

    I am one weird person. I know. :)

    I also like old Disney comics, Sgt. Rock, and several others. Loser.
     
  8. Richard Frankel

    Richard Frankel Well-Known Member

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    For aminute there, I thought you were describing Optometry.

    You are not alone, I have the complete Carl Barks and Don Rosa collection. We started collecting them when my daughter refused to learn to read. It was the comics that got her to. Now I'm waiting for a grandchild old enough to start.
     
  9. Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    My people!

    There's an optometric analogy, yes. Thought of it years ago. I have been outed.
     
  10. Steven Nelson

    Steven Nelson ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    The beauty of Batman Beyond is the concept of Batman being a mantle to be passed on more than a person.

    I don't actually watch or read this particular series, but I like the concept.
     
  11. Steve Silberberg

    Steve Silberberg ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    For NJ docs:
    http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/faq/optfaqslic.htm#2c
    3. How many continuing education credits can I obtain from Internet or correspondence courses?

    A maximum of 20 of the mandatory 50 continuing professional optometric education credits, including a maximum of 10 of the mandatory 30 TPA credits required (these 10 can be ORAL CE credits to satisfy the required amount), from any or all of the following:

    1. Videotape, audiotape, computer media, Internet, journal, or correspondence courses or programs. The course or program shall include an examination at the end of the course or program.

    2. Structured grand round, which is a presentation, with a formal outline of the course or program material, of clinical cases involving actual patient encounters and the lecture and discussion of the diagnosis and treatment of the particular patient condition.

    3. Hands-on demonstration of instrumentation when accompanied by didactic lectures.

    4. Interactive workshops which include demonstrations and applications of hands-on techniques and skills in optometric procedures and instrumentations accompanied by didactic lectures.

    5. Preparation and presentation of a continuing professional otpometric education lecture.

    6. Preparation of an educational or scientific article authored and published in a professional refere
     
  12. Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    Telling me about Batman... you know no boundaries. :)
     
  13. Steven Nelson

    Steven Nelson ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    I was just telling you what I LIKE about it. I would never presume to try and educate you on the caped crusader.
     
    Michael W Ohlson likes this.
  14. Richard Frankel

    Richard Frankel Well-Known Member

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    I thought we were discussing Batman here
     
  15. Paul Farkas

    Paul Farkas Administrator

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    Editor's note: Back to topic please.

    A duplicate of a post in the private State of Optometry forum by our technical guiding light Adam Farkas, MD,MBA explaining "perverse incentives" in non-MBA language...

    Adam explained...


    Everyone is getting freaked out over that term:

    "Perverse Incentive" isn't an insult -- is a phrase that economists use, it has a specific meaning (they have lots of other great, evocative phrases, like "deadweight loss" for instance. Colorful folks, those economists...)

    In this case, "Perverse Incentive" means that the incentive to do something is not aligned with the original purpose of the thing that you're doing.

    The classic example are the Hanoi rats -- where the Vietnamese government paid a bounty for each rat people killed and turned in. This did not lead to fewer rats -- it instead led to rat farming. The exact opposite of what they wanted.

    In order to avoid a perverse incentive in CE, you need to go back to first principles. The question is (or should be): "What is compulsory CE for?"

    The answer is (in my opinion): to protect the public. That is the purpose of compulsory, mandatory, state-required CE.

    It is in the public interest for courses to be inexpensive (so as not to be an undue burden on providers), varied (so docs will take the classes, and actually pay attention, not play angry birds), and clinically relevant to the particular provider and their patient population.

    Anyone that attempts to provide CE should, in my opinion, have these goals in mind when developing a program.

    But frequently this is not what we see.

    For-profit companies that develop CE have to keep a close eye on the bottom line, which means that they will frequently offer less variety (each additional course is expensive to offer), and/or fewer speakers (speakers will frequently offer their services at a discount if they are allowed to speak for multiple hours at an event -- which is why you'll sometimes get one person droning on for 8 hours.)

    We've even seen this with online programs -- corners cut, speakers unpaid, and meager variety, even though the online format offers the ideal venue to have a wide range of topics.

    The problems are amplified when CE is used as a 'hook' or 'lure' to get people to go to a physical conference. (Conferences where, bluntly, the purpose is mostly commercial, not educational.) Again, the classes are the lure, taking advantage of the fact that the clinician must take classes, somewhere, or else lose their license. Whether the education offered is good, bad, or indifferent isn't the point. Getting warm bodies through the door is.

    The Academy is a different kettle of fish -- their raison d'etre is education, so I would expect nothing less than a good show from them!

    And it is nice to know that the dollars clinicians pay in to CE at the Academy go right back into the profession -- your funds don't get pocketed by individuals, or get sent straight off to investors at a private equity group. (Yes, the leading publisher in eye care is a portfolio company of a private equity concern in NY. That's where your CE dollars eventually end up when you take their courses, for better or worse.)

    So with CEwire we took the opposite approach, taking into account that CE is both compulsory, and exists to protect the public.

    We decided to:

    1) pour resources directly into the speakers to get the best show possible (ie, pay them at honoraria market rates, prevent distorted incentives/cost cutting by not discounting for multiple hours, or nickel-and-diming. That is, paying them what they are worth, because their performance and the classes that they develop mean everything to getting a good educational outcome.)

    2) As with #1 -- we asked as many of the best speakers to talk as possible -- trying to offer as many credit hours as possible in the program, costs-be-damned. Variety is critical to making a useful show, IMO.

    3) Should the conference survive & turn a profit, we're endeavoring to try to put those funds right back into eye care, however we can (we chose the 3 charities we thought most people would be happy with, representing both direct patient care & the science of eye care.)

    Again, this goes along with the idea of protecting and servicing the public, and we hope it is an effective use of clinician dollars. If you're going to be forced to take CE, we wanted to at least help the medicine go down a little easier...

    ad

    Adam Farkas
    ODwire.org Staff / Tech Lead

    Editor's note: for more of the CEwire2015 back story if you are an ODwire.org professional member...
    https://www.odwire.org/threads/the-odwire-org-approach-to-optometric-continuing-education.87947/

    --
     
  16. AdminWolf

    AdminWolf Site Administrator & Tech Lead
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    Hope that was a decent explanation.

    We're really trying to just help people get the credits as affordably as possible, while having the very best possible speakers at the show, not thinking too hard about how much they are costing us. Because the program content means everything. (One great part about the internet -- it allows you to strip away the extraneous when planning an event like this. We can't lure you with the promise of a Hawaiian vacation, or good skiing.)
     
  17. Craig Steinberg OD JD

    Craig Steinberg OD JD ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    Why not? You could try... Perhaps a 10% discount if you log in from Hawaii. :D
     
  18. Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    vintage-1964-comic-art-of-batman-superman-and-robin-surfing.jpeg
     
  19. Gretchyn Bailey

    Gretchyn Bailey ODwire.org Supporting Member

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    How hard do you have to look to find these images?
     
  20. Michael W Ohlson

    Michael W Ohlson Well-Known Member

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    Generally, seconds. I have a long memory. Too long. Sometimes, that's fun, like with comic book images. Or poorly stated arguments. Or articles supporting my opinions. Remembering poor decisions or hurtful conversations verbatim and so on... not as much.

    "I feel every needle that pierced through my heart." -- Bed of Coals, Warren Zevon

    It's a harsh world.

    In this case, the curtailed silly Batman conversation followed by the Hawaii CE segue... too easy. Frankly, 98% of what I do is for my own entertainment. I'm an idiot.